Scroll vs Skill: The biggest question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shana, May 4, 2016.

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  1. Shana

    Shana Creator of Heartseeker, SF, IAS, BD & CC

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    In a 1vs1 scenario:

    Can 2 players actually equal in skill?

    If this is true, then the scroll tiers actually matter.
    But if players cannot possibly equal in skill, then scroll tiers matter less.


    I'm not leaning towards any side atm, since I'm actually really stuck on this issue.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
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  2. BloodNinja

    BloodNinja Well-Known Member

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    It's sorta in the middle because u can obviously win if u have enough skill with any scroll but at the same time u can't deny some scrolls have more utilities and functions like juggles launchers and more hit stun and damage output
     
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  3. LilPastry

    LilPastry Well-Known Member

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    So long as there is a competitive aspect, and at least two things differ from another, there's going to be tiers of how good they are.

    At equal skill levels, Shidokan will get ass blasted by hunter.

    It's a fighting game. There's going to be a tier list.

    This is not up for debate.
     
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  4. BloodNinja

    BloodNinja Well-Known Member

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    True but think like two players equal skill level(means they both get hits on each other) muay Thai vs tongbeiquan it's obvious that tong will win because of the the things it features 2 hit launcher insane damage the only way the Mt user will win is If he has more skill
     
  5. HumoLoco

    HumoLoco Clean Up Crew

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    I can use any scroll. It's depend on what player like to playing the scroll toward to their skills nor what they was taught by the trainer. It's all about their brain skills just like a puzzle skills.
     
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  6. Galvatron

    Galvatron Active Member

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    God.
     
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  7. NebuKiniza

    NebuKiniza Clean Up Crew

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    if it's equal skill than I think the better scroll will win 90% of the time
     
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  8. xVirr

    xVirr Active Member

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    ITT: Non 1v1ers talking on 1v1er subjects. If you aren't good at 1v1 don't enter yourself into our community it is closed off to trash.
     
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  9. LegendaryJin

    LegendaryJin Well-Known Member

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    Everything is up for debate.
     
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  10. LilPastry

    LilPastry Well-Known Member

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    That's my point.

    At equal skill level, it comes out to what each scroll has over the other

    Damage

    Range

    Type of counter

    Hitboxes, frame data, all that ****


    Like, match ups

    The existence of a tier list in a fighting game is not up for debate.

    Even mario kart has tier lists ffs
     
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  11. Shana

    Shana Creator of Heartseeker, SF, IAS, BD & CC

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    ah interesting. So if 2 players are able to deal the same overall damage to each other, it becomes a balanced fight?



     
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  12. LilPastry

    LilPastry Well-Known Member

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    No, because you have to consider the strengths and weaknesses of each scroll as well. Damage isn't everything.

    Like, MT may hit faster than Cyxlobe, but cyclone has more range

    Stuff like that
     
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  13. Shana

    Shana Creator of Heartseeker, SF, IAS, BD & CC

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    This is where I get stuck.
    When I see people like Alex Valle



    He's using a lower tier character, and ends up being incredibly dominant. There's many things that can explain this victory, but the one thing that usually comes to my mind is, "hey this guy is pretty skilled."
     
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  14. LilPastry

    LilPastry Well-Known Member

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    The exception is not the norm.

    That's Alex Vaille having good fundamentals and possibly Sagat having 0 match up experience with hugo.

    That match up isn't terrible for Hugo though.

    Once he gets in, Sagat has a hard time getting him out.

    Low Tier God bodies with Dan, it doesn't make Dan good.
     
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  15. Shana

    Shana Creator of Heartseeker, SF, IAS, BD & CC

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    Yeah it doesn't change anything about the scroll/character. But it just makes me wonder how much tiers have influence in the match.

    Alex Valle right there in theory, should have lost, considering that he also is against the best sagat in that time. Because if I were to side with the scrolls > skill argument, I would say that scroll tiers will always win regardless of skill.
     
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  16. HumoLoco

    HumoLoco Clean Up Crew

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    Lmao totally true.
    I am like this guy alex's styles. If I do like that or spamming its mean they are ez. That's fact.
     
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  17. LilPastry

    LilPastry Well-Known Member

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    Alex won because the sagat couldn't keep him out.

    Tiers aren't a necessarily set in stone thing, think of it like a standing on how it compares to the rest of the cast.

    Prenerf Sheik in smash 4 had lowish kill power, but could **** on most of the cast without fear of repercussion.

    You're thinking too hard about it
     
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  18. FlyingNimbus

    FlyingNimbus Active Member

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    Well , they are tiers for scrolls because some scrolls perform better than others. Imo rf is more skill based and even though one scroll can give another trouble its really the skill in the end. For example in smash 4 ness and rosa. Rosa completely walls df out of ness making rosa win probably 80 percent of the time even if the ness is skilled.
     
  19. ToulueVang

    ToulueVang Clean Up Crew

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    They both matter.
     
  20. Optimism

    Optimism Member

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    Honestly it's all about the skill, not the scroll. You can have any OP scroll in a 1v1, but if the other player is better they'll most likely beat you tactically. It's like comparing gun tiers or skill in CSGO: Counterstrike.
     
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