Remove upgraders or limit them.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Morpheum, Feb 5, 2016.

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Remove upgraders from item mall, or at least limit the max?

  1. Yes

    32.5%
  2. No

    45.0%
  3. Limit max to +6 normal, +5 int and C-type and +4 on sup.

    22.5%
  1. Seriaph

    Seriaph Member

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    I understand that they're a profit driven company. I think you're falsely equating good business with game-breaking item mall items.

    Players are just as much a commodity as money for a company such as Red Fox, and are just as essential to their life-force.

    Lets create a hypothetical scenario.
    • You have Game One. Game One is an unbalanced MMORPG due to cash shop items. Those cash shop items are a very popular purchase because it is necessary to have one to play the game enjoyably. They have a small but loyal community (200 people), but the average spending per person is high, say around $60 per month. Game One's community is in decline, due to requiring a high amount of $$ to be spent, and the imbalances that brings to the game. New players quickly give up after realizing this too (low player retention).
    • You have Game Two. Game Two is a balanced MMORPG with no unbalancing cash shop items. Cash shop items in Game Two have no effect on the game, but people still spend money because they want to look cool. They have a medium size community (1,000 people), but the average spending per person is a lot lower than Game One, say around $20 a month. Game Two's community is either stable or slowly rising, due to good game mechanics and a happy playerbase (high player retention).
    Looking at this purely mathematically, you can see that game one earns about $12,000 per month in revenue. Game two earns about $20,000 in revenue per month.

    This scenario illustrates the importance of more players, and keeping them.
    • With Game One's community on the decline, so will the publishers revenue significantly for each player.
    • With Game Two's community either stable or on the rise, the publisher has much more opportunity to increase their profits.

    RedFox has a much higher chance of retaining and getting more players if they're selling a fixed, balanced game.

    World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 1/2, Tera etc didn't make their money off cheap, gamebreaking cash items. They'd lose a lot of their community if they did, and would probably be dead games right now.

    It's good business to have a good game.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
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  2. ImaDoki

    ImaDoki Member

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    Couldn't agree more.

    Wants a good example of game two? League of Legends. One of the most played and the biggest income of 2015, just check it.
    Their "Riot Points" (our cash shop) are almost exclusively stetic and some other stuff that doesn't affect gameplay at all, but their player base is HUGE, and grows day by day.

    What is necessary in RF is allowing both P2P and F2P players to grow, not only the P2P ones. If not, P2P players will get bored to play in a dying community since F2P players just quit, since they can't survive in a P2W game.
     
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  3. Eugene

    Eugene New Member

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    i doubt that they will take out the upgrader, but if they did and implement something else useful then that good for us players. Beside the upgrader, mid rings and attk pots there are nothing else that worth to buy from the cash shop atm, for me at least.
     
  4. Morpheum

    Morpheum Member

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    No, you are getting the wrong idea... we are saying completely the opposite than you are saying, at the end, the upgraders and other game breakers unbalance the game as much than the people stops playing, there are another way to do things and get even better profit in game, the T5 jewels pack would take the sells from the Upgraders cause in manual upgrades all who played CM knows that try an int to +5 with T4 usually convert to an epic failure... and more people (even with less invest in media) gives better profit and better long term incomings cause people plays during more time.
     
  5. ImaDoki

    ImaDoki Member

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    TP potions, hissy potions, stealth potion, class redefine pill, T5~T6 Gems....
     
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  6. Morpheum

    Morpheum Member

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    HP sets, tp pots, double pots, pills, jades, T5 sets if not upgraders, invi pots, atk pots, mixed pots (atk, def/atk, def, hp), reclass pots a lot of things are usefull if the prices are nice. The problem is to set a correct price for the items and not made game breakers.
     
  7. Morpheum

    Morpheum Member

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    Yeah, in a fresh server you wont have game breaker upgrades at the beginning... that dont means that keeping upgraders up, the server will lead to this end term... so im not going to invest more time in a server with upgrades, im pretty sure.

    Probably ill move to another game as LOL, DOTA or even the Warframe that are more casual games and not need a real big invest and can be fun even on low lvls for F2P... and have bigger communities due to it.

    I always put CM server as example, whatever you say, it was... more balanced, more fun, and bigger community there, and a lot of people used a well balanced item mall shop (jades for a month for example cost less than 10$ if i dont remember wrong).
     
  8. Morpheum

    Morpheum Member

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    I could agree with upgraders, but with an upgraders that can be done also in game, for example int or c-type +5 as much (and with low probability), normal to +6 and superior to +3/4, greater upgraders means unbalance, game breakers, and finally people stop playing. That will let a P2W player that invest a lot to catch F2P experienced players that have played so much in few time, keeping balance, but the current situation is hard to keep. Probably i could invest a few money each month as i do for a few 100% pills, hp sets, pots and even stetic changes, but im not going to invest huge amounts in a game. On game campus i have invested around 60-80$ in last year aprox... redfox will stop getting these incomes if they keep using the upgraders, and i think my situation is the same for so many players.
    I will enter to do EATS if it still exist each day as im doing now and nothing more on new server. And ill see if i want to play in a future day.
     
  9. Unknown

    Unknown Member

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    I can't be bothered playing the new server if there are upgraders o_O

    It just turns the game from: "this guy knows what he's doing" into "well.. he paid more than me."
    Not that I would consider RF a game that requires much skill in the first place but still... at least make people put some effort into acquiring stuff.

    Of course, just leave the main server as it is.. Redfox needs to make money and there's enough stupidity playing there to keep the servers fully funded :cool: (apart from the high amount of RMT that kills most income for redfox, not the fact that there's no upgraders)
     
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  10. philipmikh

    philipmikh Member

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    its simple, upgraders make the game pay to win
    pay to win makes lots of people quit
    people quit for many reasons in rf online, but i know LOTS of people who quited due to pay to win ( or due to getting bad upgraders after spending hundreds of dollars, ofc they charged back the money and fcked up gamescampus )
    if the game was on steam already, the user review would probably be betwen 30-50%, western players hate pay to win
    they could just limit the upgrading though
     
  11. Justice

    Justice Member

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    @Morpheum Edit your last post instead of triple posting. You can quote as many times you want in a single post.
     
  12. Morpheum

    Morpheum Member

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    Well i can, but... i prefer this than having an eternal post with so many quotes and answering different things in same post... ;)

    Ok, seems people prefers the upgraders... What i really know is that im not going to invest more precious time and real money in a P2W game where the fight to be the stronger is a deep pocket fight instead of a skill related fight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  13. Darkon001

    Darkon001 Member

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    Seriaths opinions covered me completely +1
     
  14. AyyLMAO

    AyyLMAO Active Member

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    I'll probably not bother playing if they keep the upgraders (or at least not limit them). They make the game 100% Pay-To-Win (and don't start with the BS that rich players aren't skilled, that's just a dumb argument).
     
  15. kaischen

    kaischen Member

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    limiting them and/or increasing their price wouldn't just balance the game a bit, it would also ensure that more ppl join CW. Nowadays ppl only join for goldboxes, because upgrading just happens through boxes. Maybe then ppl start joining CW for upgrading purposes (a little bit excessivly, but the message is true).
     
  16. hellprowler

    hellprowler Active Member

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    As much as I agree that upgraders are OP as hell, the problem is this isn't 2.1.5 anymore where losing races still had an opportunity to catch up if they could not win CW and defend the HSK. You remove upgraders and the losing race will only have a means of obtaining talics through t4 ore which would be one hell of a slow process. Even the winning race still has expensive talics on the marketplace because you get so little ore from winning. I would definitely like to see an increase to total ore supply at some point. I'm not advocating a 5+ hour free ore speed like back in 2.1.5, but 30 minutes or however long it lasts now is absurd.

    For those that think increasing the ore supply would be unbalanced, even back in 2.1.5 days on solus, acc side which was the dominating side had iggies in the 1 mil range iirc and that was with 24 hour mining and 5+ hour core mining. Increasing the ore supply by 2-3x is not going to give us those prices, but maybe we can actually see iggies on the AH for less than 10 mil.

    I think what's important to realize is while the cash shop in RF is OP, it's the fundamental changes to the game to encourage more cash shop spending is what made this game extremely p2w. In 2.1.5 there was no question using the cash shop gave you an advantage, but there was also no question with a little help a non CS user could have an impact. That is not the case anymore, and making quality of life changes like increasing the ore supply will help a lot in leveling the playing field.
     

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