PvE/PvP positive discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nerwen, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Nerwen

    Nerwen New Member

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    Hi all,

    I know most of us are already adults, and also played other versions of 9dragons during the past years. We all know how 9Dragons work and have an idea of its community.

    I want to break a topic here about the PvP/PK/PvE system and all the complaining posts.

    In all PvP focused games we can find a lot of forum topics complaining about that system. Some players don't like PvP, others don't like PK penalties... etc.

    My point of view is that we, as a community, can find the balance because we are the players, we know the feeling of being PK'd or going hunt someone...

    So I just want you people to be positive and bring ideas respecting both playstyles.

    I personally don't like open PvP which provokes being PK'ed and ganked, I prefer to avoid these unfair situations. I enjoy PvE and, sometimes, I enjoy controled PvP events. However, even if I prefer 9Dragons to be only PvE, that would be unfair and a little egoistic, right?

    Everytime we merge both playstiles in the same server is a wrong decision. I tell you why:
    PvP players do force PvE players to do PvP while being PK'ed.
    1 -> PvE players don't want to get involveld in any PvP situation at all, and complains for it.
    2 -> PvP players are being punished for doing PvP in a PvP server.

    You see? Everytime you merge PvE and PvP players, both players get the worse part.

    Otherwise, I don't see fair protecting PvE players by punishing PvP players while the game allows PvP players to hunt PvE players. So if you let open PvP, don't punish it.

    For all this being said, I propose to find together a way that we can separate PvE and PvP players by bringing some ideas that might could be implemented:

    - Create channels (pvp/pve).
    - Duplicate maps (i.e. shizang(pvp) and shizhang(pve)).
    - Implement pvp/pve flags so players can enable/disable pvp status.
    - Implement anti-pk buffs on all the maps (except BP, of course).
    - Do more PvP events.
    - Create PvP quests.
    - Disable PvP during Exp events.
    - Etc, etc, etc... Please add your ideas and be positive!

    This thread is not meant to post complaints between PvP and PvE players, it's to collaborate finding a common solution, hoping developers could implement one of them.
     
  2. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    Creating channels or duplicating maps would mean work and a less stable server since either way it's essentially trying to get two copies of the game to run on one server at once. I would be fine with this, if it can be implemented without making the whole server sluggish or unstable.

    I suggested a PvP switch weeks ago. For some reason this idea makes the poor PvP kids cry. Probably because if we were given such a switch it would mean once and for all that PvP really is just side content, and not the holy of holies they think it is.

    Or they could turn PvP on the maps off and have a PvP buff to turn it on. PvP is side content, why should I have to do extra work to turn something off I don't want to use? They want to kill each other? Let them have to spend money in game and run around to get buffed. Give the PvP buffed a new text effect so they can find each other.
    Either way it should be 100% on or off. No half-way BS. If I have to keep getting buffed just to play how I want, I don't want restrictions on where I can go.

    We should have the ability to turn off PvP one way or another. Events, quests or time limits don't do that.


    You will not be able to have a reasonable discussion. The PvP brats who complain about PvEers have turned PvP into their psudo-religion. They are evangelical about it. And just like anyone who is that obsessed with something, they cannot comprehend that other people simply don't care about it, or actively dislike it for good reasons.
    To them we're just misguided and if they force us into PvP enough, we will magically become converted to their way of thinking.
     
  3. Nerwen

    Nerwen New Member

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    Hmmm.. I didn't think about channels this way... This might be not the best solution...

    They react this way because PK'ing PvE players is the easy and coward way. However, the server is PvP, which means PvP will not be side content.

    Yes, totally agree with that. Because if developers or managers don't do something, they will lose players. It's about the situation I've described before, you cannot merge PvP and PvE players, it never works.
    The current situation is that there are a lot of players stuck in SM/GB due to PKers, so they cannot grind because they are killed again and again. These players are leaving the game for good, or maybe until they have a way to grind safely.
     
  4. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    I'm using side content in the broad sense that main content is anything required to play a game, side content is anything that is optional.

    You don't NEED to do PvP for anything in this game that's important. That makes it side content. No different than anything else I can turn off in the options.

    It being a PvP server has nothing to do with whether or not PvP is important to the game. It can be entirely turned off and it wont hinder progress at all. What they have the server set to is irrelevant.
     
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  5. Nerwen

    Nerwen New Member

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    Oh, you're right. You don't need PvP to level up and advance. Actually, it's because PvP that we cannot level up!
     
  6. machatzi

    machatzi Active Member

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    If you are going to create channels for pvp, or duplicate maps, you need to give a reason to players to grind on those pvp instances.
    That could be
    - Higher exp rate
    - Higher drop rate
    - Bosses that drop special equipment. Let people who like PvP, fight for such staff.
    Just like CC used to be years ago, where you were getting more exp and much much better drops.

    Lvl up faster, to compensate for getting pked. simple.

    Generally, i would say that any map that has pvp enabled, should have higher exp/drop rates.
    I'm not saying that current exp rates are low, but.. im saying that are not good enough to keep everyone busy grinding. Instead those people decide they rather have fun pking.
     
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  7. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    Why?

    The PvP players claim to enjoy PvP for its own sake. If they are telling the truth, then having separate PvP maps to play on should be its own reward.

    I see no reason to try and sweeten the deal for PvP players. It's just going to make them feel special, which is already their problem. There is nothing special about PvP, or those who play that way. It's just a way to play a game. You either like it, or you don't.

    Having different channels or maps for PvE is about giving us the equal right to play the game how we enjoy it. There is no reason to reward PvP players, just because they like playing a certain way.
     
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  8. Shiriru

    Shiriru Member

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    I enjoyed this thread but i can't stay "positive"
    I have the feeling PKers are increasing by the minute.
    This morning i could grind around 15 minutes, without getting killed
    Now i can't survive even 5.
    When i go in a village 70% of the people there are wanted.
    Half of the Nanchang map is beeping with red dots = wanted players.
    I CANNOT stay positive anymore.
    Thank you !
     
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  9. Zukee

    Zukee Active Member

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    Bruh u muat deal with it.In korea it is like this and here same.Anyways u cant change it and it will always be like this because we have a war function here where 1 league pvp other league.So i assume RF are pushing for this pvp thing.
     
  10. [GM]Ahri

    [GM]Ahri RedFox Games Staff Member

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    Thanks everyone for the constructive feedback. We are working with the development team currently to figure out the best way to resolve all the current related issues with PVP/PVE. If you do not hear back from us regarding these subjects on the forums, it's not that we are ignoring you. it's because we haven't found the answer yet.

    Thank you for your patience.
     
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  11. Frazle

    Frazle Member

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    Remove the wanted system, it's stupid.
     
  12. MokaSan

    MokaSan New Member

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    Aweee yes pls try to fix PvP/PvE issue ASAP, I have 2 cgar now SM stuck there cuase I try to grind and this is really out of control, not kill even 3 mobs and been Pkled... and again..again and again , for me i'm out from 9D until i can make progress and is not just me 3 friends are out too, its really sad because i love this game.
    I use to play to relax from the day and now i just ADD more stress o_O
     
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  13. machatzi

    machatzi Active Member

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    I really don't get the way you are thinking buddy. Why do we need 4-5 PvP maps for no reason again ?
    Where is the challenge in those "new PvP maps" if there is no reward for grinding there? Who would even try to grind there if there is a PvE-grind in peace-zombie mode map option available?

    No one is going to grind on those PvP maps! Not even PKers will visit PvP maps, simply because.. they will not find anyone grinding there. I Can already imagine... people running around with Lightfoot, searching for... ghosts.

    People who want to PvP, they would rather all meet in BP instead.. and thats it.

    Geez, stop been salty, and start thinking before posting .... whatever that you are .... posting.
     
  14. Frazle

    Frazle Member

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    The worst part is if you do what I do (fight back and pk the pker) you get the wanted status.
    I don't mind if I get the wanted status for random pking someone, but getting it for self defense is just plain retarded.
     
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  15. Akash4

    Akash4 New Member

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    ohhhh yes lollll, the message RF are try to give is this one "Defend yourself and we punish you and send the *bad guys* to jail and we keep punish you"...RF i really think your "logic" is a litlle bit ridiculous, no matter what WHY IN HELL YOU PUNISH FOR self defense...Savi
     
  16. Blitzcronk

    Blitzcronk Well-Known Member

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    How long has this system been in production for and you give us a version that you know is broken? Explain that one please.

    1. Remove the wanted system, it's stupid.
      • People log during tracking
      • Wanted players just get killed by league members
      • Wanted players can still attack lowbies
      • Ruins the atmos for a 'pvp server'.
    2. Physically put a prevention in place that prevents anyone within 12 levels higher or lower from attacking a player. a GL player should not be able to attack a EC player, full stop.
      • As it currently stands, any high level can attack a low level, the only penalty is a 60% reduction in damage. This does not work properly and with lots of players starting to use something else other than the True Dragon Statue weapons, this debuff won't matter.
    3. Make maps before LD non pvp. LD, Icy, Tibet, etc... leave them pvp enabled.
      • Maps like SZ/SS/DT/JN/NN/HZ are still relatively new maps for lowbies, these sort of maps need to remain that way.
    4. Allow the same clans to attack each other. It's ridiculous when I see a HD or SF being piled by a bunch of BoT and the only way to help is to mask up to attack my same clan.
      • You mask up, you get attacked by guards, anyone can pile you.
    5. Remove the cool down on the mask but if you are killed with the mask on, you suffer a 30 minute debuff.
    6. Do not allow people to be killed in a safe zone. It's suppose to be a safe zone and if someone tries it, have them be killed instantly by guards.
      • There is a penalty already but this does not prevent someone from being killed in any safe zone.
     
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  17. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    I didn't stutter and made my points clearly. The whole point of having different maps is to give PvE players a place to grind in peace. Whether you think that's right or wrong is irrelevant. I don't care if you like how I play the game. The only one I am beholden to when attempting to have fun, is myself.

    There is no reason to reward PvP players just because they play PvP. If they really like it, they shouldn't need any other reason to go to pvp maps. You might as well be saying you think you should be rewarded for eating a flavor of ice cream you enjoy, in the hope it will magically get people who don't like that flavor to come and eat it with you.

    They would ostensibly be there for the players who say they enjoy playing open-PvP. That would be the reason for them being there. For people who like open-pvp.
    There is no "challenge" in anything in any game. There is only what you find fun.
    People who say they like PvP would want to play there. If there is a tiny number of them, that's their problem. I guess their precious PvP isn't as important as they think it is.

    No one would grind on them anyway. No level of reward that they would actually put on them, would make it worth the headache of putting up with PvPers for a PvE player. We don't like open-pvp. WE DO NOT LIKE OPEN-PVP. Say it with me, process the flipping words. WE DO NOT LIKE OPEN-PVP. Say it slow. Take it in. Comprehend what is being said. Accept it as fact. WE DO NOT LIKE OPEN PVP.

    Then why do they get so petulant about people not wanting open-PvP? If BP were really enough for them, there would be no reason to have different maps in the first place. Everything outside of BP could be made PvE. But all the pvp brats would throw a hissy fit if that were done.

    I'm not going to stop "being salty". I'm sick of you pvp brats acting like you should be treated better than everyone else. I'm sick of you acting like you're better than everyone else. I'm sick of seeing crap like this "PvE-grind in peace-zombie mode map".

    You playing PvP means about as much to me, as my enjoying hot tea with lemon means to you. Nothing. It's just a way to play a game. Just like that is just a way to drink tea.
     
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  18. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    I agree the wanted system is pointless.

    Leaving any maps PvP without some way to turn it off for those who wish to do so, solves NOTHING.
    Why is this so hard for you to grasp.
    WE DO NOT LIKE OPEN PVP. Nothing is going to make us like it. We are a significant portion of the player base. You can't just wish us away. We started playing this game because it had PvE servers. We are never going to be okay with a PvP server without some way to turn it off.

    It is asinine to run a game like this as a PvP server in the first place, doing it without any way to turn it off is just plain stupid.

    If even the biggest MMORPG in the world has only about 40% of their servers as open-PvP, and most others have 20% or less as pvp servers, what makes you think there is ever going to be a big enough audience to support this game as a pvp server?

    If you have open-pvp there is always going to be some form of PKing. It's not possible to have one without the other. And nothing else you said is ever going to deal with the underlying problem for a good number of us. WE DO NOT LIKE OPEN PVP!

    I am not trying to piss anyone off. But I'm sick of this ridiculous fetishistic worship of pvp. I'm sick of all of you acting like there is something wrong with PvE players, or that it's all about the PKing. That if you just push us into PvP enough we will magically start liking it.

    I don't like soap operas. I don't like PvP. I don't like peas. I don't like PvP. I don't like polka. I don't like PvP.
    Is this getting through to you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
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  19. Blitzcronk

    Blitzcronk Well-Known Member

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    The game definitely isn't dying but slowly if changes aren't made to accompany pve players, the pop will slowly decrease.
     
  20. Anikitos

    Anikitos New Member

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    This reminds me so much of what happened to Ultima online over a decade ago when pvpers were driving out new players and pvers usually on the span of a few days. Uncontrolled open world pvp is like that. Those who lvl the fastest try to prevent others from lvling for server domination. Back then UO had taken the wrong approach to solve it(they almost took pvpers out of the game), lets hope 9D does it better.

    Now dont get me wrong I am of those I believe PVP merged with PVE is a good thing but there needs to be some limitation. Perfect World for example you had to trigger PVP and if you triggered PVP you couldnt trigger it back instantly but you had to be locked on PVP for significant time to avoid exploitation. Other games instead introduced more maps on SAME lvls like having two maps to lvl at at a certain lvl - one PVP and one PVE, other made last leveling map open world pvp and others had special arenas and battlegrounds. Bottom line is for developers there were always effective or semi-effictive ways to make PVP elements tolerable for PVEs.

    Splitting completely PVP from PVE into 2 servers usually takes a market toll. PVEs wont buy much, they sell a lot cause they farm a lot, PVPs dont like to farm a lot but they spend more to keep going. So when you split the two what usually happens on most games is PVE servers got a big market with variety etc but a low percentage really buys which leads to complaints. On same style but different side of the coin a PVP server rarely has a market with tons of goods and variety forcing the average PVPer(who hates farming) to try be self efficient and farm. The game needs both groups of players

    Now storyline/theme-wise it makes no sense in PVP to have enabled PVP for white clans to fight each other or black clans to kill each other too. Its effectively having an army of a country fighting each other for the heck of it - makes no sense and kind of ruins the lore.

    Before I say my thoughts on a solution I got to say that PVE players statistically are more in almost every game even games you wouldnt expect it cause they boast full loot pvp(with some protection sometimes). Just there guilds(clans here) tend to protect their farmers and farmers got some role in the success(eg make pvpers weapons etc). My guess is here if PVErs would stop around 2/3 server would stop but cant confirm, its just the common on pvp games - my point is it would hurt the game if either group was very helped and the other bolted out of the server


    In my opinion best solutions would be that:
    Being able to enable or disable pvp mode on at least 48h-72h cooldown before you can change it again to prevent exploiting
    Under PVP flag to gain 25-30% exp and skill exp more to give people incentive to be on PVP especially on higher lvl - Reward the Risk


    As for me if you wonder I am mostly PVE nowadays(partly to the time and attention pvp needs) but I do like competetive pvp(aka duel a friend who is prepared to face me in pvp or arrange a clans war for fun for a few days etc) cause ganking someone who grinds or people way below your lvl is not competetive. Who doesnt fight back decently doesnt give any competition and the right saying here would be "The might of the defeated is what gives true glory to the Winner"
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
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