Fix the Exp curve

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Justice, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. Demented

    Demented Well-Known Member

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    You having a giggle mate? I swear on me mum ill bash you good! I am Demented. I am weird. Also, half the time I post is after waking up in the morning, or just before bed so I may not be all there :D

    Yes, I play RF Online, but not currently on gamescampus. I'm waiting for redfox to open a fresh server to begin playing again. Do you play RF online? How old are you? What's your sign? Baby, let me get at you. I love me some bacon
     
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  2. Justice

    Justice Member

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    ROFL. He quoted the wrong guy. I'm pretty sure its that 9dragons guy that is all over the place posting ambiguous ****.
     
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  3. Icynoob

    Icynoob Member

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    @9DragonsHermit <==== This guy? Yea....this guy is on a special KoS list on Open Beta day 1 LMAO
     
  4. Demented

    Demented Well-Known Member

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    rofl, yea that's what I figured but decided to make a bs joke reply out of boredom
     
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  5. Bacon

    Bacon Active Member

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    OMG I DID QUOTE THE WRONG GUY! MY BAAAADDDD! JUST HOW DID THAT HAPPEEEEENNNENENENENED !?!?!!?

    I'll let you pat me as a sign of my apology :3 :p and while you're at it.. gimme some belly rubs :3
     
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  6. ImaDoki

    ImaDoki Member

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    You think doing 50% exp instead of 30% on level 55+ is a "very little" difference? o_O
     
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  7. Justice

    Justice Member

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    The difference between 3x and 5x is 300% and 500%. The exp required to level up past 55, heck even 50 is so high that simply changing the rates don't even matter much.

    Let me give you a simple example. Lets say a mob at lv 55 gives 1x10^12 exp per kill and the experience required to level up is 2^n where n is your level. If you increase 1x10^12 by 500% and compare it to 2^55 the difference is insignificant. Also by no means 2^n is an actual representation of the exp formula but to show how big exponential growth is.

    (3 x 10^12) / (2^55) x 100 = 0.00832667268% exp
    (5 x 10^12) / (2^55) x 100 = 0.0138777878% exp

    Now lets compare this as level 50.

    (3 x 10^12) / (2^50) x 100 = 0.26645352591% exp
    (5 x 10^12) / (2^50) x 100 = 0.44408920985% exp

    The difference is quite noticeable now, no?

    Therefore the amount of exp a mob gives at higher levels cannot catch up to the magnitude of exp required to level up for the rates to make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  8. ImaDoki

    ImaDoki Member

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    That when you consider a single monster. If you multiply it by a larger amount of monsters, by the time you reach 30% @ 3x you are already at 50% @ 5x. Looking even further, when you are at 60% exp @ 3x you already leveled up @ 5x.
    Even considering the low numbers of each mob, on the run, 5x is way more than 3x.

    However, i also believe the problem is the exp curve, not the rates. Just saying that 5x is way more than 3x.
     
  9. Justice

    Justice Member

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    Obviously 5x is more than 3x. From levels 1-50, 5x feels very fast as compared to 3x. From 50-55 you start to notice the toll of the exp curve. At 55+ the exp gain is so small that you just don't even give a **** anymore.

    The average RF player quits before they even reach 55 and waits for a fresh start.
     
  10. Seriaph

    Seriaph Member

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    Having looked at the values required to go from one level to the next, EXP required til next level is quite arbitrary. ( generally at least 2x previous level after level 40.)

    Level 1 you need 12 EXP.
    ...
    At level 48 you need 200bil EXP.
    At level 49 you need 900bil EXP.
    ...
    At level 60 you need 4 quadrillion EXP.

    if we were on 1x , without glitches or easy level maps like BD parties, it would take a very very long time to level up.

    Ideally I'd like to see 1x reintroduced with no shortcuts to levelling (see: power levelling so hard that 1 BD raises you 2 levels)

    Instead, add more levels, balance the damage of each level to be in a certain range(can compete with 5 levels above and below), and lower the exponential curve so essentially it takes the same amount of time to get to level 140 as it would have for level 70.

    Why add more levels? So there are more places to receive reward. So you can smooth out the damage so a Lv 60 doesn't rape lv 56.

    I know I'm not really communicating my ideas very well. I'm on my phone and tired Will write it up in more detail later.
     
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  11. Demented

    Demented Well-Known Member

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    One can only wish that they remove BDs.... a cheater/glitchers wet dream. My only complaint about making more levels/faster leveling is that by doing so they lower the value of good upgrades and gear. You'll be leveling faster so you wont cherish that +5 weapon as much when you get one, or feel the need to farm for one because "WHY GET 1 NOW WHEN I WONT NEED IT IN A FEW DAYS!" etc. Not to mention that by leveling faster you miss out on so much low/mid level PVP and fun. Certain races shine at certain levels. If everyone rushes to high level fast it removes all that good scale tipping fun where the balance of power changes ever so often depending on who is working the hardest/together as a race
     
  12. Litas

    Litas Active Member

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    Dont forget about returneeeeee weapons, they affect lvling to much... I cant find any single reason to have them in new opening server.
     
  13. NINJAFoxHound

    NINJAFoxHound Well-Known Member

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    These weapons are mainly here so the players who rushed to 50 without worrying about their pts can still get some at 45+ without too much trouble.
    They are a good idea, but they should put a level requirement of 45+ on them. I miss the days where having a bone knife in chip war was considered deadly nyahahahaha
     
  14. Litas

    Litas Active Member

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    You get 2 boxes lvl 40 and 45... so still they are useless consumption of time (atleast for me). I cant feel any joy oneshooting every mob till lvl 35... This has to be frustrating to every new player who did not played this game before, imagine you fly thru first 45lvls and then your damage drops drasticly and new guys will have no idea why and what to do next.
     
  15. Seriaph

    Seriaph Member

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    Okay, I'm in front of a computer now, and can properly process my thoughts.

    The issue
    Is that levelling takes a long time, right? Well, perhaps not. It is a Korean grind MMORPG, after all (with lots of emphasis on the grind). We kinda knew what we were signing up for. However, that doesn't mean there isn't an issue. I think what we want is for our levels to mean more, for the effort we put in.

    Each game includes what's known as a "Reward/Effort Ratio". It is pretty self-explanatory. For the amount of effort you put in, you receive a reward. Grinding away levels, farming some gold -- We've all done it. However, when there is an imbalance to this ratio, and the reward doesn't seem worth the effort, it becomes a lot less desirable to the players to continue putting in effort. I believe this is the core of our issue.

    As we progress through the levels of the game, we receive rewards. The ability to increase our skills further, wear better armour, use better weapons. The reward as you gain levels is exponential. The reward at level 60 is so much greater than that of 55, it makes level 55's reward seems insignificant. Everything is bigger, badder, and can kill lower levels in only a few hits (depending on class.) This creates such a massive power rift that it becomes impossible to compete with those above you. Some classes have it harder than others.

    These major imbalances to the game make us feel like our levels aren't worth that much, and that we need to level faster so that we can achieve the rewards equivalent to the effort.

    An idea
    Reduce the speed at which levels start to get more powerful.
    That means to reduce the power of weapons, the defense of armor, etc.

    Increase the level limit. Introduce more rewards every level, instead of every 2 - 5. Add in more diversity among items.

    Smooth the EXP curve. With the introduction of more levels, you can decrease the amount of EXP it takes to get from one level to the next. Faster and more consistent reward/effort system.

    Diversify! Add new ways to gain EXP. More quests, repeatable quests, etc. I love the grind as much as the next guy, but if you're a holy chandra god help you.

    Remove easy ways to level. This is a korean grind MMO, so let it be one. Let the lower levels actually mean something again. Back when I first started, getting to level 40 meant something. It was a rite of passage.

    Right now, with the returnee's weapons, getting to level 40 is just an annoying waste of a few hours. It also creates a bad expectation of how the game will go for new players. The first 40 levels have essentially been made worthless by how easy they are to gain. Give them back their meaning by making players earn their way through the levels. It gives players time to formulate strategies, how to really develop their character and so on.

    The thing that really attracted me to this particular MMO over any other was it's unique PVP system. VC parties were not only fun, they contributed to the games overall PVP concept (venturing out together into a PVP zone). The whole instantiating of BD's has created an entirely different type of game which has left most other maps vacant. There's no longer any risk.

    Conclusion
    These together will create a more enjoyable time (PVE), and competitive sphere (PVP) for people to play in. A level 40 may be able to relatively compete with the level range of 30 - 50, and so on. With such a wider range of levels to compete against, PVP will again become more scintillating instead of "died to a trap on my way to CW".

    I understand it might seem like all of these are unrelated to fixing the EXP issue, but in my mind, I think they're all related. The level of your character is only as good as the quality of the game you're in. I don't care if I'm level 5 or 50, as long as that level means something in the game. I think with the above changes, they can create a lot more meaningful gameplay.

    I wish that these changes could happen, but essentially it would require a lot of balancing. I have good hopes for Red Fox, but going by the past 8 years of this game, I think I can safely say that if at least the bugs get fixed I'll be incredibly surprised.

    Hopefully that made a bit more sense than my last post. :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
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  16. NINJAFoxHound

    NINJAFoxHound Well-Known Member

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    Well you magnificently put a finger on the game's main issue. I don't really doubt the publisher's will to make things go the way the community (also known as customer base) wants, but for the past 6 years, CCR has been very stingy about fixing anything, let alone new stuff and game mechanics changes.

    Let's wait and see.
     
  17. CookieLoJ

    CookieLoJ Member

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    Theres a huge difference between 3x and 5x come on...
    On future bds I do like 0.5 at lv58 on 3x. With 5x I would do 0.9.. All i have to do is buy a jade that is going to give me another 1x to gain 1.0 per bd soloing it obviously.
    Its easy to level up untill 59 in my opinion afther that comes the hard part.
     
  18. Demented

    Demented Well-Known Member

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    The returnee weapons were removed on the past few 'new' gamescampus RF servers so people could level and play as intended. Same for the lvl 40/45 gold box weapons, and people LOVED it. It made the game fun again, and slowed down the beginning levels big time. I personally HATE the returnee weapons as I posted before they ruin low level PVP which I am absolutely fond of. Same for the 40/45 gold box weapons. They ruin early mid level PVP, and depending on your luck you may also be completely shafted by getting a junk one.

    I hope redfox doesn't include returnees or 40/45 gold weapon boxes on the new server. That way we can play RF as intended and have the most fun with it.
     
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  19. Justice

    Justice Member

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    Do you have a life? You do realize you are trying to compare the exp gained from an entire BD duration?
    If you gain 1% an hour, thats 100 hours non stop BD/EXP for 100% just to gain 1 ******* level. Thats just completely messed up. You can get to level 50 in less than 100 hours.
     
  20. CookieLoJ

    CookieLoJ Member

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    1% per hour lol ? I can solo a 58 bd in like 15 minuts or less. Thats way more than 1% per hour.
    This game is suposed to be hard for level up. Now days its just so easy. 10% quests.. DQ's.
    And you guys still crying about it being difficult ? Go play rf olympic

    Edit: For me its enought exp events. 5x,6x.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
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