[Repost from GC forums] Cora race special is broken

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dan, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Dan

    Dan Active Member

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    Before you hate on me: I know that it is way too early to mention this since RedFox will most likely have to find into the game first. I am merely reposting this to have it saved once the GamesCampus forums go down. I put a lot of work into this thread after all.
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    Hello guys!

    I know this has been talked about for years without any success so far but I feel the need to point at these issues again.

    The Cora Race Special is broken.

    If I talk about the Cora race special then I mean the Summons, of course. Not only those of the Spiritualist > Grazier class but also the summons of xclasses and the Specialist class.
    I personally share the opinion that there are many things wrong with the summons as they are right now. And I think that it's time that these issues get the attention they deserve.

    Here's a list of what is currently wrong, bugged and unbalanced compared to the race specials of the Bellato and Accretian races.

    • The Animus XP rate is far too low at level 51+, and especially at level 56+. (Even worse for Paimons and Inannas).
      Back in 2006 when we were still playing on the Codemasters servers, summons used to hit their new level together with the player. When the player was about to level up, the summons were already capped at 99.99%. In my opinion this is normal and required. We have 4 Summons which all need to be levelled up. They are all needed in different situations. Having them capped all the time is necessary. Summons do not level up to +2 levels above the player anyway. Their exp gets locked down until the player, himself, is levelling up. Why make it so incredibly hard to level up summons then?
      More importantly: Summons only get last hit exp if THEY last hit the monster, not the summoner! If the summoner last hits a monster, the summon won't get the exp boost. So to be able to exp his Isis and Hecate, the player needs to lower the monster's HP and tank it until the summon kills it. This is silly and impossible in later levels. Summoners aren't tanks. They are the squishiest class Cora got.
      Suggestion for a workaround: Change the default Animus EXP rate from x3 to x9. Yes, this sounds extreme, but believe me, past level 56 it is only a small help to try and keep summons on the same level as the player.
      Suggestion for a fix: Make summons get last hit exp even if their owner or someone in the party last hits the monster. Lower the required exp of Summons level 51+ and 56+ drastically.
    • The Animus stats are far too low to catch up with the players' gear.
      During the past years there have been several new inventions of weapons and armor. Especially weapons have gotten stronger and stronger with more and more stats. There have been new Superior Armors which can be upgraded easily using the Cash Shop. New Type D weapons, Type E weapons, level 55 Leon weapons and Relics. Level 60 intense as well as 65 intense and shiny weapons. If you compare this gear to the abilities an Isis, Hecate or Inanna can provide you will quickly notice that there is a huge difference between Summons and gear which makes summons pretty useless.
      Isis: The Isis is supposed to be an attack summon. Not more or less. It can attack, that's it. It cannot debuff, it cannot crit, it cannot buff the player. And its survivability is a joke. Isis' are one/two shot to a lot of players. The damage they deal is a joke as well. Isis' level 56 can hit level 55 geared players for like 1000 damage if even. This isn't normal if you compare it to the HP pool of most players (18-25k HP in battle mode). The Isis is no useful factor in Chip DPS anymore either.
      Hecate: The Hecate used to be a little bit more useful in pvp. It's purpose was having a high HP pool, dodge, fast attack speed and crit. I understand that its crit rate got reduced because now "Stolb" parties are much harder than they used to be. It requires 5 Hecates now to ensure a monster to be crit for certain. However, players are already very hard to crit even if they use a level 50 Jetpack +0. And the lowered crit rate on Hecates makes them completely useless in pvp now. They cannot crit players with jetpacks anymore. It's not possible. All it does is make players teleport around during Chip War. A ranger with a crit gun is far more efficient than a Summoner using a Hecate.
      Inanna: The Inanna is the heal summon. In 2006 it used to be helpful for healing tanks at Pitbosses or to heal targets in pvp. This has changed long ago. the Inanna's HP is so low that it is a one shot to the majority of players. It dies in no time. In exchange its heals are very low. A level 53 Inanna, which is very very very VERY hard to get, can heal for like 2.3k heals every 2 or even 3 seconds. This is incredibly low. I won't even compare it to a Holy Chandra or the Bellato Holy Heal skill which heals 30% HP. The fact that the Inanna heals certain amounts and not HP% is a problem. As mentioned above players have far too much HP these days and receive far too much damage for an Inanna heal to be of any use. The Inanna heals also have to be triggered manually. So a Summoner using an Inanna to heal a player cannot attack at the same time! If you compare this to Accretia specs shooting heal grenades you will quickly notice that the heal grenades are far more efficient.
      Paimon: Lastly the Paimon. The most useless summon of all time. It's purpose back in the days was it being able to tank a monster until the summoner kills the monster or the Paimon dies. The Paimon has been nerfed so it cannot hold any aggro anymore. It is just there... flying around... waiting for anything to hit it. I understand that Paimons are not supposed to keep the aggro of a Pitboss on themselves. But they are just worthless. Nobody would attack a Paimon. The Paimon doesn't deal damage. It doesn't do anything to help out in PvE or PvP. It's useless. And impossible to level. It has to die to level up. This post of the GamesCampus forums gives more details about it:
      I strongly recommend you to check it out. It sums up everything.
      Suggestion: Increase the Animus stats from level 51+. Increase the Animus stats from level 56+ DRASTICALLY. The Isis needs to get a higher attack boost with each level up. The Hecate needs to get more crit rate against players. The Inanna needs to get a higher healing boost with each level up OR the ability to heal a certain HP percentage like other healing abilities in the game. The Paimon... well... it needs to be useful again.
      I know that these changes require testing but they are URGENT.

    Post continues below...
     
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  2. Dan

    Dan Active Member

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    • Level 56+ summons drain the player's FP.
      This can be problematic if the player is a Support Archon and does not want to use an HP set. It is just dumb to punish summoners using level 56+ summons with this FP drain if they get nothing in return.
      Suggestion: Maybe lower the FP drain a bit so players are able to use Supporter Buffs and summons at the same time. If the other issues get fixed then the FP drain is justified.
    • The Symapthy Charm is useless.
      I tested it. Many times. I wanted to believe that its description was true. Adding the player's force attack power to the Summon. Boy would that be awesome with a decent staff. It doesn't work. The Isis and Hecate receive a barely noticable damage boost. But it's too much of a joke to be of any effect. Panzer Generators on Bell side are useful. They have a purpose. A clear way how to use them. Sympathy charms can be removed as they are right now.
      Suggestion: This item requires to be renewed completely. Whatever it is supposed to do. It has to be made useful.
    • The Summon Crit Error.
      It has been in the game for many years. It is as bad as it sounds. Players who outrun their summons get a critical error. As soon as the summon tries to teleport to the owner it causes a client crash. This happens all the time. Players are getting these crashes 20+ times a day. When you start Chip War with an 8/8 party and after 10 minutes it is down to 2/8 then you know exactly what I am talking about. I think this crash is caused by a broken texture file. The Summon teleport animation. This requires fixing and deserves a very high priority (like the client-server desync issue).
      Suggestion: This is obvious. Whichever file causes the crash needs to be replaced/fixed. This crash issue has been around since 2008 so not from the beginning. Try to get a hold of old animus (teleport) texture files maybe?
    • Summons are too slow!
      Summons are far too slow for the pvp we have on the GamesCampus servers. Players are fast and they keep moving and kiting in PvP. Very often summons don't even get to attack their target because when they catched up to their owner and are in attack range, the target already ran off. And if a summoner runns off, he gets a critical error. See above.
      Suggestion: Summons need to be a lot faster. I like to refer to the player + pet system in Diablo 3. Summons move the same way as the player as soon as the player clicks on the ground. They don't move after the player but with him. In our version of RF it would simply help to increased the summon movement speed. Maybe double it. Make them faster than the players. I don't see how it would be too much of an advantage. They would just be able to catch up with their owners all the time. And they would be able to react to commands immediately.
    • The auto target feature targets summons.
      Even if the Cora box (Options menu) isn't checked, you target nearby summons using the Tab key. This is very bad for both PvP and PvE. You need to switch targets fast and if you target your own summon (or your friend's summon) and therefore stop attacking/debuffing the enemy/monster this might get you killed fast.
      Cora simply cannot use the auto target feature like that.
      Suggestion: The auto target feature probably understands summons as monsters. Maybe mark summons as "Cora players" for now so Coras don't target their own summons during exp and pvp.

    Feedback from both players and GMs is highly appreciated. Some of the mentioned stuff is ridiculously easy to fix. Other things require some development and a lot of testing. But please take this serious.
     
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  3. GoDSpeLL

    GoDSpeLL Active Member

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    WTH????!!!! :p
    yeah, he's right. totally aggree :cool:
     
  4. WolfDragoon

    WolfDragoon New Member

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    Having played that class for sometime I agree... Not meaning to derail this post also.. but I feel that MAUs are in the same boat. Melee and Pure Casters get all sorts of boosts from elems potions, etc.. while summoners and riders get squat gear that will help make their jobs keep up with the upgrades. I played in a private server and they addressed the issue of all the new armor and weapons they were giving out by giving elems specifically for Summoners and Riders. You could also upgrade the elems up to +5 (only safe till +4). For the summoner the elems worked for the isis summon only.. For the rider there are seperate elems for the goliath and the catapult. it placed this 2 classes back in the game and made it fun again. again I am not promoting any private server but saying that this should be considered to keep the game balanced for all classes.
     
  5. Chiyo

    Chiyo Member

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    increasing the exp rate to x9 might be a problem for early game, because the animus levels too fast and you cant use it well for exping or farming.
    In my opinion the balancing problem of the dmg of animus is, because there are upgraders for weapons in the cash shop.
    Without them the average player damage wouldnt be that high, since talics are harder to get and weapons harder to upgrade (i guess most people who try manuel upgrading +5 and higher will agree xD).
    Also the MAU damage would look better when not almost all people have high weapons.
    I think the most animus problems are at level 55+, the exp and damage should be recalculated to make it more balanced.
     
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  6. shinobido

    shinobido Active Member

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    Isis 55/59/60 test i do with sumonner 61

    1: animus increase great status when change color (5 in 5 lvls)
    2:About Fp drain, i dont think need remove this, cora summonner dont have many costs like striker/mau, only animus charm.
    My sugestion its just Conservation (decreases the cost of fp for use skills/force) work for FP drain rate.
    3: the problem dont is armor +5, if you test isis 50 vs striker 50 int +5, u will see that give a good damage, this was because when the game went from 55 to 65, was not given due attention to the animus, especially xp for Inanna / Paimon 50+ and isis hecate 59.
     
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  7. WolfDragoon

    WolfDragoon New Member

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    Problem with limiting what you can achieve will make the game stale and boring not being able to change or upgrade your gear for a long time or without so much effort will also lessen the income of the company thus less support and less content improvements. So with profit for the company in mind and balance of the game... best option is proper upgrades for all. Simply limiting the ability to upgrade in a game is not good economics for the publisher.
     
  8. Valeron18938

    Valeron18938 New Member

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    Dan,
    shinobido,
    if you do not understand the mechanics of the game, what the conversation. No Isis will not kill cloning lizard itself. 55 Isis interrupts 3,000 banks 55sp set + 3 + 4, and this without your damage ... Learn to play and understand the mechanics of the game. If the game will adjust for players who do not know how to play, then play in such projects will not be interested.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  9. CookieLoJ

    CookieLoJ Member

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    All I can ready on your reply is " I am ignorant and bla bla bla"
    Dan is right in what he said. Summoners are f**** up, alot of players had to reclass because they get RF.bin crash all the time. Also inannas and paimons are so weak and usuless compared to bells and accs respective classes.
    There's alot to be fixed on summons. I have seen isis lv60 hit accs for 800 dmg... WTH even if the summoner hits him for 5k you will never kill a melee acc with that crapy animus dmg..
    You are the one who doesnt understand a thing.
     
  10. GoDSpeLL

    GoDSpeLL Active Member

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    he is not ignorant. he is a ****** acc :p

    and yeah with x9 exp-rate for animus lvl50 and higher.
     
  11. shinobido

    shinobido Active Member

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    55 isis give 3,000 on set sup +3/+4? you see my video? isis 60 pure sumonner class give me max 2k damage
    this is why no1 want to be summoner on 60+
     
  12. xIchiraku

    xIchiraku New Member

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    i dont know which patch it is, but in GC RF. paimon and inana get last hit exp when the summoner and/or people in party kill mobs
     
  13. GoDSpeLL

    GoDSpeLL Active Member

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    yeah, it's possible in BD or for ppl with critsets only ;)

    my paimon is lvl52. I lvled it without critset and it was realy hard and cost me months. :cool:
    now it's big waste of time to lvl it, bc of very low exp.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  14. Nanas

    Nanas New Member

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    +1 to this. But let me reply to the following:

    "Maybe lower the FP drain a bit so players are able to use Supporter Buffs and summons at the same time. If the other issues get fixed then the FP drain is justified."

    I think it would make sense for the Conservation buff to apply to the FP drain of summons. This would finally make that skill worth something...
     
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  15. GoDSpeLL

    GoDSpeLL Active Member

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    fp drain and using leonstaff is impossible without advanced-supset ;)
     
  16. Neiou

    Neiou Member

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    Dan, a huge thanks is in order, for keeping you're effort into this game in general, as usual it's a pleasure to have you around !
    Keep it going mate !
     
  17. Salvader

    Salvader New Member

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    just another, lets fix my favorite race and screw up the game even more! fck yeah!
     
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  18. Shinrae

    Shinrae Member

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    Did you even read what the TS posted?
     
  19. Trigui22

    Trigui22 New Member

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    What about MAU's Defense? All races have problems to be fixed. Thats what he meant (I think). Hahaha
     
  20. GoDSpeLL

    GoDSpeLL Active Member

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    for bell-probs make ya own thread plz :p
     
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