Discussion in 'Archive' started by [GM]Toast, Jul 6, 2018.
l0l ban all rares & all 2018 scrolls while you @ it
AYO HOW U JOIN DIS TOURNEY GM
lol basically anything with a two-hit launcher?
yeah that K K+G is 100% safe on block, because of the recovery it has
it can also explain why the K K+G can connect in a juggle and cause a reset
No one cares what you support rares have and always will be banned in 1v1.
How is it a cop out and making people bitter if it’s been like this since the game started ?
Go cry a river elsewhere with the idiotic ****
Rules should be like this:
-30 STR,ARM,SPD,JMP; -600 SP; -3000HP; -150 CRI
Only exos and scrolls that are allowed are the ones in the store.
No revs, No 2nd panic, No HP or SP pots, No bombs
This way everyone gets a chance to win and it'll be skill based!!
This is a phenomenal tournament. Only thing I'd do different is 2 loss elimination /w a losers bracket but I know that's more work so I understand single elim for simplicity sake.
The qualifications were intended so only active players can participate. In previous 1 vs 1 tournaments, we have had too many people not show up and sign up only because it was a 1 vs 1 tournament. We also wanted to bring the spirit of 1 vs 1 back into the game. While it seems users do seem displeased with the idea, please let us know why so we may improve in our next tournament.
We will be working with members of the community to create a fair blanket ban list so items like Fearless, Telos, and Dark Haze Ninjitsu may be used, but also remove overpowered scrolls like Blood Dragon, as seen in the 2 vs 2 tournament. We will be likely doing away with the selection of one scroll to use only and include a pick and ban system instead, where users from each side can ban an additional 3 scrolls.
How about regularly buffing and nerfing Scrolls and Exocores so that banning “overpowered” items wouldn’t be a problem? The game is currently free to play and pay to win.
Well with what was just said 1v1 has been officially killed .
Lmao good luck it’ll be nothing but a bunch of non skilled randoms.
Letting players ban their opponents scroll ?
If it’s suppose to be about skill what’s the point of the player can’t use their best scroll .
WOW HOW DID IT UPDATE
THAT WAS AWSOME BRO
im going to plat rumble fighter
siegfried357/ im going too play it
You're clearly not a 1v1er these are the lamest complaints i've heard. Why do you only name the pros of the scrolls? You're supposed to weigh the pros and cons of each scroll if you're talking about fairness
Hitman: All combos are 4 hits, punch launcher so launcher cant be confirmed on hit, the similar combos can get predictable and 2nd hit is punishable in KP on block if reacted quick enough. Great scroll, can definitely be played against.
Shoot boxing: Great hitstun, great combos. The punch combo can get unreliable since the second punch is multi-hit and shoot boxing has low range. Scrolls with longer range can just abuse that range gap and easily play against shoot.
Zin Karate: Zin Karate has punishable cooldowns so im not even going to go start with this one. Wym virtually unpunishable? You need practice with this scroll to shorten the cooldowns. The range and reliable damage is what makes this scroll good.
Hawkhunter: ....Are you serious?
Zin TKD: Punch combo is good but lacking. The kicks make this scroll. Very linear
Electro: Good scroll, has a lot of tools, but it isnt overpowered. A lot of scrolls have better hitstun and priority.
White fang: What's so unbalanced about this scroll? Has good damage but besides that I don't see anything that is groundbreaking with this scroll that many other scrolls cant do. The punches and kicks have a lot of animation so it's extra punishable on whiffs.
Mystic Arts: I would consider this broken tbh. Has too many tools for the damage it does. If it wasnt omni grab it would be a little more manageable. Still, it can be played against.
Heartseeker: Nothing stands out with this scroll tbh besides the dive kick on the punch combo. Then again i havent played against too many in 1v1 so i dont know its potential.
And of course we go with the basic fundamental rule of 1v1: The player matters wayyyy more then the scroll (Not including rares)
Shanas formula seems to be: [Insert decent 1v1 Scroll] + ["It's virtually unpunishable"] = Ban suggestion
This is exactly the responses I'm looking for. I hope to provoke discussion about the scrolls, as it is the first step to figuring out what really needs to be banned.
Regarding Hawkhunter, the scroll is similar to Zin TKD, assuming the user will not depend on the reset juggle as their main source of damage.
For Zin Karate, the scroll has lightning fast recoveries in 99% of its inputs, along with kG K that's advantageous on block. The scroll can easily re-apply pressure, especially when both the punches and kicks have incredibly fast startups. A combo I'm often referring to is the KKPP combo, where the first 3 inputs are often super safe stopping points, and there's a lot of room to exploit this. What's more is the combination of range, hitstun, speed, and recoveries, that make it super safe, and very easy to pressure with
And for White Fang, it has one of the highest damage juggles in the game, combined with god-like hitboxes, great delays, great recoveries, decent stun, and a kG combo-breaking grab
Heartseeker excels in a lot of areas, and the only 2 glaring weaknesses it has is the linear hitboxes, and massive end lag to the mid combo attacks. The scroll's startup speed, high mobility, damage, omni grab, stun, chargeable finishers (that are unblockable), long reaching attacks, incredible delays, and having the ability to reset juggle, make the weaknesses not so big.
Most of the non-rares mentioned don't really require a ban as much as the god tier rares such as Blood Dragon, Shadow Ninjitsu, and Parkour. I only included the non-rares, because I personally think some are actually ban-worthy
Often the scrolls that require a ban are scrolls that have scroll properties beyond what most scrolls have, such as the combination of high-rated stun/speed/recovery/damage ratios, along with hitboxes and posession of omni grab. Most scrolls in the game are usually excellent at one, or two of these things, and lack the others. When a scroll is excellent in all, if not most of the areas [while possibly also having an omni grab], it can be easily be rated as an overpowered scroll
Often it's hard to see the cons, when the pros outweight it by a lot. There are some cons that can be cancelled out with player skill, and with the pros of the scroll itself. Shoot Boxing's lack of range for example, can be ignored if you can close the gap easily (often with a jump-in/angled slide kick). Another example is the linear hitboxes of Zin TKD, which can easily be ignored with great aiming ability. And I'm aware if I use this example, I could justify any scroll to fit this mold, and while this is somewhat true, there is also the massive difference in scroll properties, which cannot be ignored. A player with better scroll properties are equipped with more tools to succeed, thus gaining an advantage over a player. For example, a player with the default scroll, facing a person with Shoot Boxing, will easily be in a disadvantage against the Shoot Boxing user.
Typically how I rate scroll properties is this:
Tier 0: Special tools: Invincibility Frames/Dodges/Combobreakers, Unblockables, Reset Juggles, Chargeable attacks, Omni Grab, Mobility
Tier 1: Hitboxes
Tier 2: Startup Speed
Tier 3: Recoveries
Tier 4: Stun
Tier 5: Damage
Tier 6: Delays
Tier 7: Range
A scroll with great stun and recovery can become unpunishable, and scroll with simply great recovery makes it unpunishable, and a scroll with special tools like dodges/massive movement on attacks make a scroll harder to punish (technically unpunishable).
I consider range to be the least important, as long as it has great damage, good startup, and good stun. I don't consider delays too important if the attacks have great stun, recoveries, startup speed, and damage. And etc. Often the scrolls I listed excels in most of these areas (excellent in at least 6-8 of the tiers). These scrolls are definitely considered high tier, as they are likely a big threat to the 1vs1 tournament.
It's also easy to make the assumption that if recovery is all it takes to make a scroll good, which happens to be a huge asset to make a scroll punishable [and the "overpowered scroll" complaint], that it would render my point about overpowered scrolls require 6-8 tiers useless. To answer this, let's look at Zin Karate, where it doesn't just boast recoveries, but in all the other tiers. Zin Karate excels in:
Possibly Tier 0, Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, possibly Tier 4, Tier 5, Tier 6, and Tier 7
This scroll succeeds in at least 6 tiers, if Tier 4 and Tier 0 are not included. This will help reach the conclusion that this scroll is overpowered
I'm glad to see you're interested in this discussion
idk how this game has been going for so long lol its been p2w since 2007
@[GM]Toast I am Looking forward for the selection
In my opiniom there is no reason for this tournament to go that deep . You the GM's sbould have announced the participants by now .In my opinion the rules and regulations you have set are alreasy fantastic . No stats , No exos , No rare scroll. Clean cut as it should be . All of these suggestions should have its owm section its just taking up space on this post . Thats my input .
@[GM]Toast Where is the Announcement bro??? is this even a thing anymore lol?
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