Current Attack Rate and Old one

Discussion in 'Player to Player Support' started by Overseer, Jun 9, 2017.

  1. Overseer

    Overseer New Member

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    Hello, as the title says i wanna discuss attack rating. Currently the standard build for warriors seems to be full DEX and then CON, however I was thinking about the actual use of all this attack rating. The old attack rating for DEX was 5 per 1point, and the new is 20 per 1point accordingly to Falcons post.

    So that gives us a rough 4x times more attack rating then the old build. So im wondering has the mobs dodge rate changed? Because if not then why would we build more DEX.

    So I will assume that it has INCREASED or else it would be to easy. But then i wanna adress a new question.
    Before 2nd role reroll i had almost maxed strength because i thought it was the way to go, and it worked fine. Ofcourse i made sure i had enough attack rating to actually hit the target, but i also got so much atk Rating from Epi, and gear.

    The difference i now see tho is that before reroll i would on active do something between 1000-3000 dmg on normal hit. Crit was about 2000-6000. ON ACTIVE AT Elemental Crown 1. Pretty much 3 shot minions. And with deff smash the crit went to about 10k and for other smashes about 20-24k.

    Now however with maxing DEX (NOW ON Florol Crown) i only do 800-1800 dmg on active and on crit 1000-3000. With def smash the active does 2000-3600 dmg and for other smashes 14-21k.

    What im trying to say here is that the full DEX build maybe isnt as optimal as a balanced DEX STR warrior, because if you either way hit the target but one build 3shot and the other takes about 5-10 hits depending if you hit the def smash.

    Ofcourse im basing this entire discussion for PVE only.

    What do you people think? Is the old dodge on mobs still there or is it updated? Is the new DEX build a bit to much then needed? Any thoughts on this. Would be fun to discuss :)
     
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  2. Overseer

    Overseer New Member

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    Also i want to add that if you on active make 10k crit, you sure get alot more hp back from the set and rank 4 trinket (total 4/1000) then you would if the battle took longer and you deal less dmg.

    For the survival purpose.
     
  3. CrispApple

    CrispApple New Member

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    I am really happy to see someone who can think and test for themselves, rather than just accept the majority BS and pass it on to the next newbie.

    Your observations and conclusions are perfectly correct.

    All maps except Kunlun and Loulan, it is better to max str first. You don´t need alot of dex really to hit mobs at a acceptable ratio. In fact, if you have premium, mkc and rank4 deco - you can go with 8 dex till str is maxed without any issues at all, and at 2nd role pump all 350 points into str.

    Another myth thats been passed around, is that dex gives crit rate. It is not true.
    Dex offers accuracy and dodge - and nothing else. It´s main usefullness comes into PvP or HG mobs which has alot higher dodge than tibet and maps below.

    Crit ratio is given by everything but dex. Epithat, weapon, ornaments, relics, trigrams, options and consumables - but not dex.

    Also Falcons post is inaccurate - you can´t trust the values he posts.


    So what has lead to this belief - well at higher level, the dmg bonus from strength becomes negliable - because 1-2k higher or lower dmg doesn´t mean alot, when mobs have a ton of defence to reduce it, and a majority of the dmg comes from YYBS and weapon+refine bonus, rather than strength.
    The higher level players notices that strength adds no noticable difference to their dmg values on mobs, and therefore conclude that strength is unimportant - and the low levels listens to the high levels.
    They fail to realize that at lower level mobs, the situation is not the same, and also that strength helps build defence, which is more important for low level characters than HG/HI chars that already has 10k def or more.
     
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  4. Overseer

    Overseer New Member

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    I agree with alot of what you are saying except for the part that DEX does not give crit rate. Im not sure if its correct or not but if you hover your mouse over the attribute DEX it actually is written "increase crit rate" but still i personally dont notice any difference after doing a DEX specc, but using a weapon with ornaments, epi and Trinkets there is a huge difference.

    But back to the topic, yeah im thinking of maxing STR first because im a 100% free to play guy. And not because i cant afford premium or cards or w/e but i want to try my first character totally free and see how far i can come :)

    You can call it a personal experiment to see if free to play have any chance at all in this game, mostly for the late game.
    Lvling so far im in correct phase and almost out lvls my teammates. However i think that is because im very resourceful and have A LOT of experience from 9D during pretty much all companys that have owned 9D.

    And i think it is fun to compare and also see how different the game is from over 12 years ago :)
     
  5. CrispApple

    CrispApple New Member

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    I know it says, and its highly likely why people started this myth.
    Truth is, the description is from acclaim times, and never been revised when the stats was revised.

    Dex doesn´t give any crit rate at all.
    Tested 4 times total, first few times was sloppy attempts.
    Last test was with a EC 2nd role char, 350 dex vs 350 str.
    The result was practically same, when you disregarded misses.
     
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  6. Overseer

    Overseer New Member

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    I see, thats actually very interesting because im thinking of the old school build with alot of dodge, well considering that 95% of the players in Yin are warriors... And alot of strenght for more defense and also dmg would be more effektive in both pvp and pve. I think im gonna try maxing str first :D
     
  7. Zaitrey

    Zaitrey Active Member

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    Well all of you have the point here and I do agree with maximizing STR as well. If people ask me to recommend where to spend the stats on, I'll say the same thing like almost PvE players do. Because, after you have reached 2nd role, that's the last way possible to reset your stats for free. After that, you have to buy an item mall to reset your stats which will cost you real money (Gift system has been blocked).

    Currently, I have 41k Attack Rate and my attacks still miss sometimes. I'm not saying by increasing your Attack Rate, your attacks will reach a stage where they won't miss anymore but if 41k Attack Rate still misses, how about the lower ones? The odds are against them. But let's just leave this matter there since this point for high level mobs/KL mobs.

    Maximizing STR however, don't give you really much damage. Most of us or everyone depends on relics/weapons for damage. Other than epi/relics with or w/o Attack Rate opts, there's no way you can increase your attack rate. You still get damage from weapons, but no way to get Attack Rate from other than epi/relics.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with maximixing STR. I'm just stating the pros and cons of maximizng either DEX or STR.

    Keep this thread going, seems pretty fun and very useful for players.
     
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  8. CrispApple

    CrispApple New Member

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    Actually theres a free hefei restat, once per char - you can use at any time.

    For mobs Tibet and down, there´s negliable difference between 8k AR and 25k AR. The misses you experience with 41k AR, are often more due to server desync rather than actual misses in PvE. Most players has experienced the 5-6 misses in a row, and its easily broken, just by moving the char an inch or clicking randomly on the mob once more. The miss-chain will stop immediately.
    For KL mobs, 12k AR is enough, and adding more wont give a huge advantage either.


    Maxing str before dex, is better pve wise.

    1) A lower level new player, perhaps even a non-premium player will hugely benefit from the extra damage and defence that strength adds, rather than focosing on dex early on. I dont think anybody will disagree, that a badly geared new char, non prem status, need the def and dmg, rather than a little better accuracy.

    2) However a ton of dex on a supergeared low lvl char, wont really make any difference at all. You´ll have all the AR you need from trigrams, epi, relics etc.
    Here is an example, full str, base dex RC5 healer.

    upload_2017-6-11_15-19-40.png

    Weapon options, relic options, clothes refine, elixirs, buffs, prem etc all adds to dex/attack rating.
     
  9. Zaitrey

    Zaitrey Active Member

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    Ohh yea forgot about that. This is not a problem anymore I think.

    Are there actually actual fact for these ones? Seems very interesting since I can focus on other things for relics opts. When I had 37k AR , my attack missed more than when I have 41k now in KL. And I'm sure of it. I have 150mbps internet with a very well connection/coverage and I'm using it alone. It's mine, I don't share with anyone. I'm sure a poor connection is not my problem at all.

    And of course, I know the continuous misses part and how to fix it. What I really wonder, is 12k really enough for KL mobs? As I stated, I had fewer AR and I missed more than AR I have now.

    If what you said is true, may I know how far you've tried it or is there any facts that stated it? Difference in AR really matters to attack mobs, that's what I know. Looking forward for a reply!

    1) I won't disagree that having damage from STR is very good for low-level players. But I think it's better to hit more than having huge damage but keep getting missed. (Doesn't really matter, I think? lol)

    2) This is entirely different case lol since most low level players now are only HG/HI lowbies :p

    I'm NOT denying your statement, just stating mine :)

    I know you can get AR from these items/gears/relics. I thought we're talking about new players that just start playing. So I limit myself to easily obtainable matters :p My bad though :)


    Keep going!
     
  10. CrispApple

    CrispApple New Member

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    Those are my personal experience, i havent tested this part thoroughly, but i am pretty convinced I am right about it regardless. I often grind kl from ec-hm lvl and up to hermit on hounds - solo tanking. None of those chars got alot of ar, and they dont really miss alot.
    I did a char yesterday, from hm to hermit, took 58 mins on x2 event + 1 x5 card from attendance.
    Defintely didnt have more than 12k AR.

    You right, you will miss more on low lvl char, with no prem and bad gear - however the def bonus for str is adventagous to those players, rather than a bit more hitrate. Basically, its better to be able to tank better, than to hit better - if the alternative is that you spend alot of time meditating.
    Example - FD3 non prem healer soloing voh full str built with poor gear.
    Same healer with same gear, wouldnt survive with full dex - the def would simply be too low.

    upload_2017-6-11_17-10-16.png
     
  11. Zaitrey

    Zaitrey Active Member

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    Okay2 thanks for the explanation! :)
     
  12. Overseer

    Overseer New Member

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    First i must say, thats insane hahah, didnt know you could get all that and also those insanely huge stats at RC with some premium and relics. Nice :D

    But i also agree with the fact that its better to be able to tank then hit more (also to do dmg with that str for lower lvl people/ free to play) because thats what im struggling with right now. As i explained at the start of this thread with my damage difference according from str and dex build i now on Crimson Snake 8 have come to a huge god damn wall...

    For all who is playing for free and warrior, or simply playing alone that cant get much help this is mainly for you. At levels CS6-CS10 you will probably be grinding in Liadong Katana warriors or whatever their names are... and they are lvl 134 (Golden Lotus 2) and this is a problem for free to play warriors mainly because without the GCM gear and a new sword with over +7 ref it is going to be hard.

    Because the mobs you grinded before these were lvl 126-128... What i mean its a huge gap here for the creeps, which makes it hard for people without good gear. I was dumb to change from str build to Dex build during 2nd role.. sure i hit a bit more (maybe....) but it takes to long to finish these mobs before i need to meditate. They do way to much dmg for my hp leech and then i have 2/1000 relics, 2/1000 VoH set, 13/1000 epi from attendance and leech from healer pt, totally 17/1000hp by my self AND leech pt.. for you who dont know... THATS SHAAAT LOT OF LEECH.. It pretty much means every creep that i attack should give me around.. 850 hp minimum because they have around 50k hp. And still im low after and got alot of External wounds too.

    So with a exp card during event do you know how much time i lose on that and also the struggle to lvl half as fast. Some friends at HM levels faster than me.. How is that for comparison.

    So.. for the extra def, extra damage, yeah i think its more worth it building STR than building Dex build atleast on warriors.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  13. Czezry

    Czezry Active Member

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    Im a f2p GL something warrior , no banners flags or whatsoever , never had any issue with max dex build HOWEVER instead of going cons ive put myself all into str after dex , and i get some good vibes... I mean , you still need hp leech if you dont wanna med (about 8/1k with mah build) but considering my poor gear i think thats a newbs way to go. Save some cash for leech orns and its fine here in icy:)
     
  14. DaiTap

    DaiTap Member

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    Hi , i'm WuTang Warrior .
    I build : Dex+Str for weapon requiremnet , else for Cons. Now , im a HM9 grinding in Icy , i see i lose very less heal point but maybe small dame to mob. :(
    PS : Used set rank 1 (+4) , Loulan Sword HM6 (+10) . NO baner , flag ,....
     
  15. Overseer

    Overseer New Member

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    Im not quite sure I follow there DaiTap, are you asking what you should do or is it just a statement? :eek:
     
  16. Czezry

    Czezry Active Member

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    You get a free banner from Attendance every month you check in for reward ,DaiTap .
    Your first month might be tough but after that you will always have 1 banner with you , up to you wchich one so dont whine:) Epi aswell ( one per week) so the game gives you tools to grind tbh , im currently holding ws +4 (KEK) weapon with rank 1 +4 clothes , karma relics , BUT i got my free banner and epi so i grind no problem :)
     
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