PVP vs PVE

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by xFlyingArtx, Mar 16, 2016.

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What do you prefer to enjoy this game?

  1. PVP

    22 vote(s)
    22.4%
  2. PVE

    39 vote(s)
    39.8%
  3. PVP & PVE, PVE user should buy anti PVP pills

    19 vote(s)
    19.4%
  4. PVP & PVE, PVP user should buy PVP pills

    18 vote(s)
    18.4%
  1. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    You can't isolate PvP to this game as it is flawed in 9Dragons. There is PvP but not really any events for PvP. Sure there is BvW and SvS but other than that there isn't an official League vs League war or more events like BvW and SvS.

    As far as PvP goes a decent number like PvP but they don't like to be griefed. Sure, The majority of the server doesn't want to do it 24/7 but I am sure you will find a good number that would PvP occasionally (not karma trade or duels) if the game maintains a PvE and PvP option.

    On the bonuses/perks or whatever you want to call them. Times have changed and the gaming industry took it to that direction. If 9Dragons became pure PvE then it would slowly die off as people would get bored since this isn't a pure PvE based MMO. 9Dragons entered the market as a PvE MMO with PvP content that was mishandled and this is why people don't like it. If PvP was better managed with content then there will be less griefing (wouldn't completely stop it but would reduce it). Learn the MMO market/direction of the industry before posting this stuff.

    My above comments in this post are why I mentioned other games. PvP is broken in 9Dragons so you have to look elsewhere for PvP examples that work. Kal Online is a game closely related to this game that handled PvP correctly especially with their events.

    Now stop talking as if your opinions are facts because they aren't. My MMO knowledge spans at minimum 30 MMOs which I dealt with PvE only, PvE/PvP mix, and PvP only MMOs.
     
  2. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    Sure you can. You make it a choice and let the players decide how they want to play. If that means there is hardly anyone doing open-pvp, then the players have spoken.

    Evidence? So far the poll I made stands at 81% saying that no bonus would be enough to get them to play open-pvp. And doing open-pvp occasionally isn't doing it regularly, which is what it would take for your scheme to be effective. Otherwise it's still just giving special treatment to the ones who would be doing open-pvp anyway.
    You're sure? Based on what?

    It would die? Based on what evidence? We are only talking about OPEN PvP here, not all the pvp in the entire game.
    Everything about this game has been mismanaged. So singling out pvp as the only thing is cherry picking. If it didn't run out of quests half way through, if it had a continuous story, if the grind didn't turn into torture right around the same time the quests run out... If, if if.
    This game has everything going against it. It's outdated, incomplete, has no end game content, has a story that dies half way through, has little of the typical RPG side content like crafting and professions, runs out of quests half-way through, and is as grindy as a game can get.
    People that like grindy games are already a niche, and open-pvp players are another niche. So you're talking about a niche within a niche to start with, then adding all the other issues on top of it.
    There are more people who like grindy games, and they play them for the grind. Not for open-pvp.

    You say I need to know the industry better? I say you need to pay more attention to what's in front of you.

    We aren't talking about all MMOs, this is an RPG.
    MOBAs are the pvp players game of choice right now, so yes, I do know what's going on in the industry. And it's found out what I knew from the first time I thought it through. Open-pvp and RPGs are totally opposed types of gameplay. Organized pvp can coexist with the rpg style. But not open.

    I looked up Kal online. From what I could tell most of its PvP content is organized, the only thing that sounded like open-pvp was called assassin mode, and according to the wiki page it didn't give any rewards. Only the 6 events did.
    It also said they could never keep more than 2 servers going.
    Not that I could find much about it. The facebook page is full of nothing but complaints , and I couldn't even get to their website to see what was on it. There are no online guides, no decent reviews, no fan sites.
    So if that's supposed to impress me compared to major MMORPGs, you're mistaken.

    The fact is that OPEN-pvp isn't popular in MMORPG games. The evidence shows that games can, and do, survive and even thrive without needing it. That means organized pvp is enough. There is no reason to cater to open pvp players.
    That isn't an opinion.
     
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  3. DrRockzo

    DrRockzo Active Member

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    Just to point something out. This poll does not represent the community as a whole. It represents the people who are active enough on the forums to read it while it's up.In no way is it an accurate description on the entire game population.
     
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  4. leonol1

    leonol1 New Member

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    I agree with u.
     
  5. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    First off while there are other forms of MMOs I didn't realize I had to be specific and state MMORPG. Also, MOBAs aren't MMOs and here is the official definition below.
    • MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) - Multiplayer online battle arena (MOBA) is a game genre that included League of Legends, Dota and Smite. It's also known as 'action real-time strategy.' Unlike traditional RTS games, MOBAs don't include unit construction and you control a single character at once.
    Here is the definition of an MMO.
    • An MMO, or massively multiplayer online game, is a game that thousands of participants can play simultaneously over the internet. Some MMO games offer voice chat, in which players can wear a headset and talk to other unseen players online.
    If you argued a case like World of Tanks, Blacklight Retribution, and/or Blackshot were comparisons then I would have been able to agree. However, Any MOBA is not an MMO of any form.

    Now for my mention of other MMOs I stuck with the MMORPG vain as Kal Online, Tera, and Blade & Soul are all segments of the MMORPG vain. Sure, Tera and Blade & Soul are action oriented MMORPGs whereas 9Dragons and Kal Online are closer to the traditional point and click vain they fit the same main genre. Only the subgenre changes.

    As far as Open-PvP and MMORPGs not working this is complete crap. Blade & Soul is an example of mixing the two well. Tera has a decent aspect to it. Even Guild Wars 2 has a quality open world PvP structure. The problem isn't that they aren't compatible but more how a company executes the goal of PvP in events, instances, and open world. 9Dragons is an example of PvP done wrong and the following is why (paragraph below).

    There is no goal for PvP other than bragging right so not everyone is interested in it. Create PvP oriented quests and League vs League War events (resets every 1-3 months) with a ranking system where the top leagues get a bonus while you create the same structure on the PvE side it will promote PvP while not alienating PvE players. Then there are the arena style fights like 3vs3 and 6vs6 that don't exist. Sure there is the duel that is 1vs1 but that is all. Expand on this and make the current duel system mean something. Storm vs Storm and Black vs White aren't cutting it especially in today's world.

    The main issue here is that the PvP side of 9Dragons is lacking so while bonuses aren't required to the players While bonuses to players who aren't in PvP aren't required it will help atleast until they can create more PvP oriented content to keep the PvPers occupied with an arena match system and other forms of PvP. So yes PvP in 9Dragons is broken as a whole as it lacks in content which in a sense causes the hardcore PvPers to target PvE players with open world PvP exists with poorly thought out anti-pk system is in place or one doesn't exist.

    Regarding your poll 12 people doesn't make up the entire PvE/PvP section of the community. Only about 5% of the player base reads the forum. For it to actually work RedFox Games would need to create the poll and announce it in game. Otherwise there isn't a shot of getting anything close to an accurate poll.

    Now as far as Kal Online goes it is just as old if not older than 9Dragons but I did find information on it. How their Castle Siege (PvP event) works is this:

    Castle Siege system
    Castle Siege system is composed of declaration period, preparation period, and siege warfare period.
    And during this period, it is not possible to make or break alliance with other guilds.
    Processing Hours
    - Declaration period: Fri 1:00 am ~ Sat 1:00 am
    - Preparation period: Sat 1:00 am ~ Sun 1:00 am
    - Siege warfare period: Sun 1:00 am ~ 2:30 am (overtime : 10 minutes 3 times, total 30 minutes can be extended )

    System of Castle Siege and Reward
    · Guild leader who has conquered the castle can control the tax of his area through Manager NPC.
    · He or she who conquers the castle can change tax from 85% ~ 115% and this authority only goes to
    leader who occupied the castle.
    · Existing price of items from the store will be 100% standard tax.
    · If there is no guild who conquers the castle, tax will set for 100%.
    · Winning guild will take (Tax-85)*0.3% of NPC market profits.
    ‘When you join the castle siege, you are able to get the
    guild Honor point.
    Winning guild 1,500 Point
    Alliance guild 1,000 Point
    Losing guild 500 Point
     
  6. Idolized

    Idolized Active Member

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    So what's the point of having safe zones and a million NPC guards that do nothing to prevent someone from pk'ing you inside those safe zones or punish them for it afterward?
    Well I guess I won't be afk'ing in safe zones or anywhere any more which is dumb.
     
  7. crowncrown2407

    crowncrown2407 New Member

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    Just PvP = server gonna Die.
    Just PvE = server gonna Silent.
    Both = Angry Players and F*kng PK's around you cant Grind.
    With Anti-PK pill = you cant you cant kill anyone on CC.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  8. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    Semantics. MOBAs are a form of MMO game.

    Tera has PvE and PvP servers, which means they are not integrated.

    Blade and Soul: According to the wiki for the game open-pvp gives prestige points that are used to increase faction contribution. I imagine there are other ways to do that, making it a non-exclusive reward. It also has a lot of caveats. Notably you don't get any points unless you kill someone who already has them. So unlike your scheme the reward is based entirely on engaging in PvP, not just allowing yourself to become a target while grinding and doing other things.
    This game already has that, it's called Karma. Maybe you should suggest new karma based items, INSTEAD of just giving out an arbitrary bonus.
    New weapons, relics and clothes based on Karma? That would be fine, since you only get the reward when you are actively doing something to get it.

    That castle siege thing in Kal is one of 6 pvp modes listed that gave rewards. But they are not OPEN pvp, they are organized events.

    GW2 does not have open-pvp at all according to their own forum. They only have organized pvp.

    You keep pointing to games that have successful organized pvp.
    Can you point to a single successful MMORPG that has only open-pvp, or any structure similar to what you're proposing? Where players get something JUST for having pvp turned on? I'm betting that every single example you can point to is structured so that the rewards are obtained only from actively doing PvP, and even then are either for pvp specific things, or things that are no better than stuff you can get by doing some aspect of PvE, like raiding.

    There is the key fundamental difference. Those games give rewards for playing pvp, not just having it turned on. The only rewards beyond the Karma that pvp already gives (which isn't that useful) that can be offered here, are PvE rewards.
    That is the key thing you have failed again and again to address. What makes you think giving PvE rewards is going to entice people to put up with open-pvp? Why bother with some tiny bonus when you can just pop a card?

    All your bonuses would do is continue feeding the egos of the pvp players by making them feel special.

    Put in a pvp toggle, add in the level limit that Blitz keeps going on about (or make them lose Karma for PKing someone more than 12-16 levels lower), base the karma gained on the same level system as the mobs so there is no benefit to attacking someone much lower, add a bunch of new Karma based stuff in... That would be getting somewhere.

    As for the poll.
    If the results were more varied I would agree, but when nearly everyone that's voted on it says no reward will be enough to get them to do open-pvp, that is a pretty strong indicator.
    Also... only 5%? I think you are over estimating the amount of people playing this game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  9. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    In just about every MMO the people who actively read the forums make up a max of 5% of the total game population at any given time.

    GW2: “The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn't 'true' open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson

    Video of GW2 PvP

    I see it is no point in continuing this matter with you as you choose to read what you want and are blinded to the difference of game genres seeing as you assume MOBAs are MMOs. That is enough to discredit anything game related you have to say. The only thing that MOBAs and MMOs share is that they are games and play online. However, You failed to realize that MOBAs don't have Massive amounts of players playing simultaneous in one game.

    As for as everything else my above paragraph validates anything you said and say will discredit you when it comes to anything regarding video game whether they are online or offline. You have proven to be a selective reader and uneducated in the gaming world.

    This will be my last response towards you as it will end up nowhere since you only have tunnel vision and didn't research.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  10. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    That might be true of one that actually has a real population... this game doesn't.

    Right, so you quote a post that says I'm right about one of the games you mentioned, and completely ignored the rest of what I said. It's an organized event. No one can just go around attacking other people who are doing other stuff like open-pvp in this game allows. You have to willingly take part in it.

    You keep saying I don't know what terms mean, yet you can't even tell the difference between organized pvp events and open-pvp.

    Then you play definition police, acting as if my use of MMO as a catch-all for online games lots of people can play together somehow invalidates everything I've said. Especially since it has NOTHING to do with what we've been debating.
    MMO, MOBA... Who cares? MOBAs are still where the pvp junkies are going these days to get their kicks. Because they are tailor made to cater to them.
    I didn't fail to realize anything. I just don't care to nit-pick over minute distinctions that really don't matter.
    They are still games that massive numbers of people play online simultaneously, just not all together at once.

    No it doesn't, and you damn well know it. All you're doing is getting petulant because I proved you wrong, and you're using the MMO/MOBA BS as an easy out. If you can't handle a real debate, you shouldn't get yourself into one Jr.
    Just one more self-entitled child.

    I didn't research? You can't even name a single game that supports what you've been saying, and I didn't research? Sit down and get a reality check Jr.

    I proved you wrong. I even came up with a vastly superior way to get people playing PvP here (add more Karma based stuff). Why don't you put on your big boy pants and admit it.

    (As for you Rockzo, go do some devil's dandruff. You'd like the post of anyone that even vaguely seemed to be telling me off, no matter how stupid what they said actually is. Like a highschooler. Which seems to be about the level of maturity for you pvpers.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  11. Blitzcronk

    Blitzcronk Well-Known Member

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    How exactly does your mind work? You claim you have the ability and knowledge to get people playing pvp here, but what exactly do you have to do with pvp, you have stated hundreds of times you don't have anything to do with pvp here and you label pvpers as "Sociopaths" so please explain how you have any underlying knowledge of this games pvp mechanics - without using examples from other games. Explain in plain English what you know about pvp here?

    Level range limits and extra karma items won't make pvp flourish, there are a lot more issues that need to be addressed before you even scrape at the surface. I mentioned it a few times just to stop people from eradicating pvp from this game entirely.
     
  12. Acidhedz

    Acidhedz Active Member

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    I didn't claim anything, I said I have a vastly superior solution (than his).
    PUT IN MORE KARMA BASED STUFF.
    What's the matter, can't you read? The only purpose PvP here serves IN GAME, is Karma. If you want more people doing PvP, then you need to make doing it worthwhile to them. And putting more stuff that is based on Karma is the best way to do that.
    "Put in a pvp toggle, add in the level limit that Blitz keeps going on about (or make them lose Karma for PKing someone more than 12-16 levels lower), base the karma gained on the same level system as the mobs so there is no benefit to attacking someone much lower, add a bunch of new Karma based stuff in... That would be getting somewhere."

    Zaratron thinks giving a tiny bonus to XP and Drop, which are PvE, is somehow going to be enough to get people to turn on open-pvp. Which is stupid. No one will do it.
    "Hey, here, I'll give you this tiny bonus to put a target on your back while you grind, to make those wannabe thugs over there happy. What do you say?"
    "**** off."

    Putting in more Karma stuff will at least give people an incentive to play PvP that has something to do with PvP. It wont get anyone playing open-pvp, because nothing is going to get people who want to keep PvE and PvP play separate doing open-pvp. But it would at least give the ones who like to PvP sometimes, more reason to go do it.

    I have repeatedly said open-pvp is sociopathic behavior. I did not label you sociopaths. Learn to read.
    Sociopathy is having a lack of empathy. Empathy means "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another." Seeing things from their PoV.
    You want open-pvp so you don't have to ask to attack PCs. You want to attack PCs in game, because they are PCs. If you didn't see them as being different to mobs, then you wouldn't need pvp in the first place. The fact that it's a player is what makes you enjoy it.
    You ignore how the PLAYER feels about you attacking them. You don't care how it them feel, you are (ab)using them to get your kicks. You are imposing YOUR PoV onto everyone else. YOU don't mind, or even enjoy, being attacked in open-pvp, so you think everyone else does or should feel the same way. But that's not how the world works. People have different PoVs. Which you don't care about.
    You have no empathy towards them. That is sociopathic behavior.

    Which is why I don't care if you don't get what you want. People that don't care about the feelings of others, have no right to complain when others don't care about their's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  13. DrRockzo

    DrRockzo Active Member

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    Sick burn bro. I liked the post cause he validated the fact that your nice little poll means diddly ****. So a small percentage of the game population participated...congratulations? I sure as hell didn't because your theories, evaluations and thoughts on the game mean less than nothing to me. No one is asking for a structured debate, it's a video game forum, well aside from you that is. You address my level of a maturity yet your argument is always "false equivalent. No one can give me objective reasons, I am right until someone does. I am right your wrong cause I said so."
    You hate pvp and want nothing to do with it yet you are convinced you can improve it, why would anyone listen to you? I hate country music with a passion but I don't spend my time trying to make it better. You're level of intellectual delusion is astounding. When your ego eventually allows the rest of your brain to get through the fact that you claim empathy for attacking random people in a make believe land yet belittle their intelligence and talk down to them or insult them is hypocritical/self serving bias then I will buy you a beer and we can get drunk but until then STOP PRETENDING YOUR OPINIONS MEAN ANYTHING TO ANYONE ELSE AND NO ONE OWES YOU ONE IOTA OF JUSTIFICATION
     
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  14. Zaraton

    Zaraton Member

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    You both shouldn't waste anymore time on him as he only believes his method is the only correct path for the game. Also, He wouldn't of even accepted Perfect World International as an example of justification. If you didn't have a specific item in your bag then you could have dropped any item on your character while in PvP (can't remember if it happened in PvE too). That person also failed to realize me stating the EXP and other stuff being a temporary measure until real PvP content could be implemented. Oh well not my loss and I will contact the developers with what I have in mind rather than post on the forums as people have too much salt about balancing PvP and PvE.
     
  15. atotwaffu123123

    atotwaffu123123 New Member

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    PVP is the BEST and that wanted system is so ***! We want PVP and we dont want Wanted system. Why so ***????
    its all about how you play the game, be wise.
     
  16. Akash4

    Akash4 New Member

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    yeahhh right...YOU WANT PVP... stop including ppl that clearly DON'T WANT your stupid way to play
    o_Oo_Oo_Oo_Oo_O
     
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  17. Blitzcronk

    Blitzcronk Well-Known Member

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    The same argument in relation to those who don't want pvp. I like pvp but I've been forced out of it.

    We need more pvp content.
     
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  18. Akash4

    Akash4 New Member

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    you are right, but i'm not the one that jump from forum to forum claiming that WE (all of us) want pve..always say ME want pve...you spot the difference right?...and lets be really honest all this mess came because most of "PvPers" actions, I know if i.m playing i can be pkled, but come one the same guy kill the same player every 3-5 min is ridiculous and lets put more "fun" to the thing lets find him...more "fun"...lets bug his/her RTD.
     
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  19. gilderoy

    gilderoy Member

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    I really don't know where are the Black vs White events , the boss events ... A GM gathering in BP ( Kill GM event) ... Do something new. Get the players gathered in one place so that the real PVP starts , not this bullying cr@p where high players kill low player, this is fun ( sometimes- and only for the killer) , but it's nonsense. Getting Karma from Low players and then showing off your new Karma Title in hefei means you're a low ass player.
     
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  20. Back12345

    Back12345 Member

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    Amen !
     
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